How can I give a Ranger advantage on a check due to Favored Enemy without spoiling the story for the player?
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The Scenario
I am the DM for a group who have just entered a town that was attacked by cloud giants a few days before their arrival. The players and characters don't know this though, so part of the mystery is trying to work out what happened.
One of the characters is a Ranger with giants as their Favored Enemy. The Favored Enemy feature says:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemies, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
As an example, one of the major clues is the fact there are dozens of boulders scattered around the town that were dropped from a cloud giant castle from a great height. As well as footprints that were left behind when they eventually descended from said castle.
The Problem
Although the Ranger has giants as their favored enemy, it isn't immediately apparent that giants are at fault here (the town has been abandoned so there is no one to ask about what happened). However if the player asks to take a look at the boulders or tracks left behind, I would have to ask them to roll the check with advantage. This will immediately tip the player off that their Favored Enemy ability is coming into play as for anything else, that check would be made as a straight roll.
Obviously if the player succeeds on the check, it won't be a problem, as they would have learned giants were here. But a failure on the check would provide no in-game knowledge for the character, but still float meta-game knowledge in the air for the players.
The Question
Before a Ranger knows what they're looking at, how do I allow a player to use their Favored Enemy ability without providing spoilers on a failed check?
dnd-5e gm-techniques class-feature ranger metagaming
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Scenario
I am the DM for a group who have just entered a town that was attacked by cloud giants a few days before their arrival. The players and characters don't know this though, so part of the mystery is trying to work out what happened.
One of the characters is a Ranger with giants as their Favored Enemy. The Favored Enemy feature says:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemies, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
As an example, one of the major clues is the fact there are dozens of boulders scattered around the town that were dropped from a cloud giant castle from a great height. As well as footprints that were left behind when they eventually descended from said castle.
The Problem
Although the Ranger has giants as their favored enemy, it isn't immediately apparent that giants are at fault here (the town has been abandoned so there is no one to ask about what happened). However if the player asks to take a look at the boulders or tracks left behind, I would have to ask them to roll the check with advantage. This will immediately tip the player off that their Favored Enemy ability is coming into play as for anything else, that check would be made as a straight roll.
Obviously if the player succeeds on the check, it won't be a problem, as they would have learned giants were here. But a failure on the check would provide no in-game knowledge for the character, but still float meta-game knowledge in the air for the players.
The Question
Before a Ranger knows what they're looking at, how do I allow a player to use their Favored Enemy ability without providing spoilers on a failed check?
dnd-5e gm-techniques class-feature ranger metagaming
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The Scenario
I am the DM for a group who have just entered a town that was attacked by cloud giants a few days before their arrival. The players and characters don't know this though, so part of the mystery is trying to work out what happened.
One of the characters is a Ranger with giants as their Favored Enemy. The Favored Enemy feature says:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemies, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
As an example, one of the major clues is the fact there are dozens of boulders scattered around the town that were dropped from a cloud giant castle from a great height. As well as footprints that were left behind when they eventually descended from said castle.
The Problem
Although the Ranger has giants as their favored enemy, it isn't immediately apparent that giants are at fault here (the town has been abandoned so there is no one to ask about what happened). However if the player asks to take a look at the boulders or tracks left behind, I would have to ask them to roll the check with advantage. This will immediately tip the player off that their Favored Enemy ability is coming into play as for anything else, that check would be made as a straight roll.
Obviously if the player succeeds on the check, it won't be a problem, as they would have learned giants were here. But a failure on the check would provide no in-game knowledge for the character, but still float meta-game knowledge in the air for the players.
The Question
Before a Ranger knows what they're looking at, how do I allow a player to use their Favored Enemy ability without providing spoilers on a failed check?
dnd-5e gm-techniques class-feature ranger metagaming
$endgroup$
The Scenario
I am the DM for a group who have just entered a town that was attacked by cloud giants a few days before their arrival. The players and characters don't know this though, so part of the mystery is trying to work out what happened.
One of the characters is a Ranger with giants as their Favored Enemy. The Favored Enemy feature says:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemies, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
As an example, one of the major clues is the fact there are dozens of boulders scattered around the town that were dropped from a cloud giant castle from a great height. As well as footprints that were left behind when they eventually descended from said castle.
The Problem
Although the Ranger has giants as their favored enemy, it isn't immediately apparent that giants are at fault here (the town has been abandoned so there is no one to ask about what happened). However if the player asks to take a look at the boulders or tracks left behind, I would have to ask them to roll the check with advantage. This will immediately tip the player off that their Favored Enemy ability is coming into play as for anything else, that check would be made as a straight roll.
Obviously if the player succeeds on the check, it won't be a problem, as they would have learned giants were here. But a failure on the check would provide no in-game knowledge for the character, but still float meta-game knowledge in the air for the players.
The Question
Before a Ranger knows what they're looking at, how do I allow a player to use their Favored Enemy ability without providing spoilers on a failed check?
dnd-5e gm-techniques class-feature ranger metagaming
dnd-5e gm-techniques class-feature ranger metagaming
edited 46 mins ago
V2Blast
23.1k374146
23.1k374146
asked 2 hours ago
BradenA8BradenA8
1,299522
1,299522
add a comment |
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
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You make the advantage roll in secret
In situations where I don't want players to know they have advantage/disadvantage for any reason I simply roll a d20 for them myself and work out the results. This usually works out just fine because the players do not know if I am simply rolling an opposed check, for example.
I also make it a habit to roll d20s behind the screen for no reason which also helps with the ruse.
This does require that you either know their modifier or keep an eye on what their d20 result was and calculate it from there.
There is, however, one issue I have found with this method: it messes with abilities that allow players to reroll before knowing the results and things like the Lucky feat so it is not an universally applicable solution.
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1
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Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
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– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
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I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
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– Kevin
26 mins ago
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@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
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– Sdjz
23 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Roll a second dice behind your screen
If you want the ranger to unknowingly roll with advantage then this is the simplest solution.
When the ranger makes his check, roll a second d20 behind your screen, then take the higher of the two rolls (his roll and your roll on his behalf) and give him information based on that, not necessarily the roll he rolled.
Your players will know something is going on when you roll a check but they won't know exactly what. If this is likely to be problematic at your table then roll a few d20's in advance of the session to use for this purpose and keep a note of the outcomes.
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1
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Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
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– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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You tell them
"You see scattered boulders that seem to have come from nowhere and large imprints in the ground. Giants have been here!"
Favoured enemy to me is like passive perception, you don't need to ask about something to recognise it.
Once they have been told about the giants they still have to make the tracking check, so they only find out so much.
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The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
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– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
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@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
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– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
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@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
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– Captain Man
5 mins ago
add a comment |
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This is precisely what the passive versions of skills are for
The recommendations for when to use passive checks are:
Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
To calculate the passive check value use this formula:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
Then compare that value to the DC for the check.
There are modifiers for advantage (and disadvantage) as it interacts with their passive perception.
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.
When I DM I get the players to fill out a character tent with their ability scores, proficiencies and AC that I can then refer to if I need passive check info.
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I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
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– Captain Man
3 mins ago
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@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
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– illustro
23 secs ago
add a comment |
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Use the rules for a passive check, but with a twist!
As mentioned in this answer when you're using passive ability checks you add or subtract 5 for advantage/disadvantage, but I disagree that a passive check makes sense here.
If you're really worried about telegraphing anything to your players then ask the ranger to roll as normal (not with advantage and not as a passive check) but mentally add 5 to what they say (or lower the DC by 5, same thing)! This way you have in a sense given advantage which is mathematically the same as what the rules for passive checks describe but not telegraphed anything.
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add a comment |
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How about you say that he is allowed to roll as if it were advantage, but you will decide, without telling him, whether you take the second roll into account depending on whether his skill applies or not.
Ofcourse, this means that you will have to do this on other occasions as well, to avoid shifting the meta from the problem with advantage rolls on Favoured Enemy, to meta on this "trick".
(Disclaimer: I'm very noob at D&D so I have no idea if there's anything in the rulebook, or some common practice for this.)
New contributor
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1
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This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
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– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
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SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
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– Opifex
2 hours ago
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As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
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– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
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Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
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– V2Blast
43 mins ago
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As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.
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– Captain Man
8 mins ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You make the advantage roll in secret
In situations where I don't want players to know they have advantage/disadvantage for any reason I simply roll a d20 for them myself and work out the results. This usually works out just fine because the players do not know if I am simply rolling an opposed check, for example.
I also make it a habit to roll d20s behind the screen for no reason which also helps with the ruse.
This does require that you either know their modifier or keep an eye on what their d20 result was and calculate it from there.
There is, however, one issue I have found with this method: it messes with abilities that allow players to reroll before knowing the results and things like the Lucky feat so it is not an universally applicable solution.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You make the advantage roll in secret
In situations where I don't want players to know they have advantage/disadvantage for any reason I simply roll a d20 for them myself and work out the results. This usually works out just fine because the players do not know if I am simply rolling an opposed check, for example.
I also make it a habit to roll d20s behind the screen for no reason which also helps with the ruse.
This does require that you either know their modifier or keep an eye on what their d20 result was and calculate it from there.
There is, however, one issue I have found with this method: it messes with abilities that allow players to reroll before knowing the results and things like the Lucky feat so it is not an universally applicable solution.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You make the advantage roll in secret
In situations where I don't want players to know they have advantage/disadvantage for any reason I simply roll a d20 for them myself and work out the results. This usually works out just fine because the players do not know if I am simply rolling an opposed check, for example.
I also make it a habit to roll d20s behind the screen for no reason which also helps with the ruse.
This does require that you either know their modifier or keep an eye on what their d20 result was and calculate it from there.
There is, however, one issue I have found with this method: it messes with abilities that allow players to reroll before knowing the results and things like the Lucky feat so it is not an universally applicable solution.
$endgroup$
You make the advantage roll in secret
In situations where I don't want players to know they have advantage/disadvantage for any reason I simply roll a d20 for them myself and work out the results. This usually works out just fine because the players do not know if I am simply rolling an opposed check, for example.
I also make it a habit to roll d20s behind the screen for no reason which also helps with the ruse.
This does require that you either know their modifier or keep an eye on what their d20 result was and calculate it from there.
There is, however, one issue I have found with this method: it messes with abilities that allow players to reroll before knowing the results and things like the Lucky feat so it is not an universally applicable solution.
answered 2 hours ago
SdjzSdjz
12k457100
12k457100
1
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
Or have them roll the dice (I hate it when my DM rolls for me), let them tell you the result, and then announce whether they succeeded. [Which meand that you can add in the advantage all by yourself]
$endgroup$
– Hobbamok
51 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I would say to combine what @Hobbamok with getting in the habit of randomly have characters roll d20 for no reason.
$endgroup$
– Kevin
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Hobbamok I'm not sure I understand the suggestion here. Are you saying that you could ask the player to simply roll 2 d20 and then work it out yourself? Isn't that the same as just telling they have advantage/disadvantage, with the only difference being that they know whether it is advantage or disadvantage?
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
23 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Roll a second dice behind your screen
If you want the ranger to unknowingly roll with advantage then this is the simplest solution.
When the ranger makes his check, roll a second d20 behind your screen, then take the higher of the two rolls (his roll and your roll on his behalf) and give him information based on that, not necessarily the roll he rolled.
Your players will know something is going on when you roll a check but they won't know exactly what. If this is likely to be problematic at your table then roll a few d20's in advance of the session to use for this purpose and keep a note of the outcomes.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Roll a second dice behind your screen
If you want the ranger to unknowingly roll with advantage then this is the simplest solution.
When the ranger makes his check, roll a second d20 behind your screen, then take the higher of the two rolls (his roll and your roll on his behalf) and give him information based on that, not necessarily the roll he rolled.
Your players will know something is going on when you roll a check but they won't know exactly what. If this is likely to be problematic at your table then roll a few d20's in advance of the session to use for this purpose and keep a note of the outcomes.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Roll a second dice behind your screen
If you want the ranger to unknowingly roll with advantage then this is the simplest solution.
When the ranger makes his check, roll a second d20 behind your screen, then take the higher of the two rolls (his roll and your roll on his behalf) and give him information based on that, not necessarily the roll he rolled.
Your players will know something is going on when you roll a check but they won't know exactly what. If this is likely to be problematic at your table then roll a few d20's in advance of the session to use for this purpose and keep a note of the outcomes.
$endgroup$
Roll a second dice behind your screen
If you want the ranger to unknowingly roll with advantage then this is the simplest solution.
When the ranger makes his check, roll a second d20 behind your screen, then take the higher of the two rolls (his roll and your roll on his behalf) and give him information based on that, not necessarily the roll he rolled.
Your players will know something is going on when you roll a check but they won't know exactly what. If this is likely to be problematic at your table then roll a few d20's in advance of the session to use for this purpose and keep a note of the outcomes.
edited 45 mins ago
V2Blast
23.1k374146
23.1k374146
answered 2 hours ago
TiggerousTiggerous
8,83343776
8,83343776
1
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Well, if the Ranger has advantage, how would you fail because the DM rolled lower then you? There are still two rolls...
$endgroup$
– Bookwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You tell them
"You see scattered boulders that seem to have come from nowhere and large imprints in the ground. Giants have been here!"
Favoured enemy to me is like passive perception, you don't need to ask about something to recognise it.
Once they have been told about the giants they still have to make the tracking check, so they only find out so much.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You tell them
"You see scattered boulders that seem to have come from nowhere and large imprints in the ground. Giants have been here!"
Favoured enemy to me is like passive perception, you don't need to ask about something to recognise it.
Once they have been told about the giants they still have to make the tracking check, so they only find out so much.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You tell them
"You see scattered boulders that seem to have come from nowhere and large imprints in the ground. Giants have been here!"
Favoured enemy to me is like passive perception, you don't need to ask about something to recognise it.
Once they have been told about the giants they still have to make the tracking check, so they only find out so much.
$endgroup$
You tell them
"You see scattered boulders that seem to have come from nowhere and large imprints in the ground. Giants have been here!"
Favoured enemy to me is like passive perception, you don't need to ask about something to recognise it.
Once they have been told about the giants they still have to make the tracking check, so they only find out so much.
answered 2 hours ago
SeriousBriSeriousBri
5,99521748
5,99521748
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The giant aspect is part of the mystery though. Those boulders could have come from siege engines outside the town, or a large winged creature dropping them from above. Telling them outright without a successful check ruins the mood of the situation.
$endgroup$
– BradenA8
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 I think this is a case of agreeing to disagree, but I would never hide knowledge from players, if you know giants (Or anything really) well enough you WILL recognise their signs, even if you can't make out the specifics.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
$begingroup$
@BradenA8 Are there known winged creatures in the area that drop boulders? Is there a war going on with siege engines? I would assume that there are at least some giants in the area since a ranger specializes in hunting them. Is it reasonable to assume that giants are the most likely cause?
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
5 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is precisely what the passive versions of skills are for
The recommendations for when to use passive checks are:
Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
To calculate the passive check value use this formula:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
Then compare that value to the DC for the check.
There are modifiers for advantage (and disadvantage) as it interacts with their passive perception.
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.
When I DM I get the players to fill out a character tent with their ability scores, proficiencies and AC that I can then refer to if I need passive check info.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is precisely what the passive versions of skills are for
The recommendations for when to use passive checks are:
Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
To calculate the passive check value use this formula:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
Then compare that value to the DC for the check.
There are modifiers for advantage (and disadvantage) as it interacts with their passive perception.
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.
When I DM I get the players to fill out a character tent with their ability scores, proficiencies and AC that I can then refer to if I need passive check info.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is precisely what the passive versions of skills are for
The recommendations for when to use passive checks are:
Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
To calculate the passive check value use this formula:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
Then compare that value to the DC for the check.
There are modifiers for advantage (and disadvantage) as it interacts with their passive perception.
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.
When I DM I get the players to fill out a character tent with their ability scores, proficiencies and AC that I can then refer to if I need passive check info.
$endgroup$
This is precisely what the passive versions of skills are for
The recommendations for when to use passive checks are:
Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.
To calculate the passive check value use this formula:
10 + all modifiers that normally apply to the check
Then compare that value to the DC for the check.
There are modifiers for advantage (and disadvantage) as it interacts with their passive perception.
If the character has advantage on the check, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. The game refers to a passive check total as a score.
When I DM I get the players to fill out a character tent with their ability scores, proficiencies and AC that I can then refer to if I need passive check info.
answered 1 hour ago
illustroillustro
7,10022063
7,10022063
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
I don't think this is what passive checks are for. The most applicable thing would be "when the DM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice", but the player is likely to want to roll to look into it. It's difficult to not telegraph something is strange if you don't tell them to roll, then it's difficult to act like their super high roll somehow failed or super low roll somehow passed when you're actually using the passive number.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
3 mins ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
$begingroup$
@CaptainMan The DM calls for rolls not the players. In this case the players say "I want to investigate that" and the DM says (knowing the resolution already) "you see X, Y, Z" and to the ranger (if successful) "you see evidence of giant activity". Not all investigations or perceptions require a roll.
$endgroup$
– illustro
23 secs ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use the rules for a passive check, but with a twist!
As mentioned in this answer when you're using passive ability checks you add or subtract 5 for advantage/disadvantage, but I disagree that a passive check makes sense here.
If you're really worried about telegraphing anything to your players then ask the ranger to roll as normal (not with advantage and not as a passive check) but mentally add 5 to what they say (or lower the DC by 5, same thing)! This way you have in a sense given advantage which is mathematically the same as what the rules for passive checks describe but not telegraphed anything.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use the rules for a passive check, but with a twist!
As mentioned in this answer when you're using passive ability checks you add or subtract 5 for advantage/disadvantage, but I disagree that a passive check makes sense here.
If you're really worried about telegraphing anything to your players then ask the ranger to roll as normal (not with advantage and not as a passive check) but mentally add 5 to what they say (or lower the DC by 5, same thing)! This way you have in a sense given advantage which is mathematically the same as what the rules for passive checks describe but not telegraphed anything.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Use the rules for a passive check, but with a twist!
As mentioned in this answer when you're using passive ability checks you add or subtract 5 for advantage/disadvantage, but I disagree that a passive check makes sense here.
If you're really worried about telegraphing anything to your players then ask the ranger to roll as normal (not with advantage and not as a passive check) but mentally add 5 to what they say (or lower the DC by 5, same thing)! This way you have in a sense given advantage which is mathematically the same as what the rules for passive checks describe but not telegraphed anything.
$endgroup$
Use the rules for a passive check, but with a twist!
As mentioned in this answer when you're using passive ability checks you add or subtract 5 for advantage/disadvantage, but I disagree that a passive check makes sense here.
If you're really worried about telegraphing anything to your players then ask the ranger to roll as normal (not with advantage and not as a passive check) but mentally add 5 to what they say (or lower the DC by 5, same thing)! This way you have in a sense given advantage which is mathematically the same as what the rules for passive checks describe but not telegraphed anything.
answered 11 mins ago
Captain ManCaptain Man
27218
27218
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How about you say that he is allowed to roll as if it were advantage, but you will decide, without telling him, whether you take the second roll into account depending on whether his skill applies or not.
Ofcourse, this means that you will have to do this on other occasions as well, to avoid shifting the meta from the problem with advantage rolls on Favoured Enemy, to meta on this "trick".
(Disclaimer: I'm very noob at D&D so I have no idea if there's anything in the rulebook, or some common practice for this.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How about you say that he is allowed to roll as if it were advantage, but you will decide, without telling him, whether you take the second roll into account depending on whether his skill applies or not.
Ofcourse, this means that you will have to do this on other occasions as well, to avoid shifting the meta from the problem with advantage rolls on Favoured Enemy, to meta on this "trick".
(Disclaimer: I'm very noob at D&D so I have no idea if there's anything in the rulebook, or some common practice for this.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How about you say that he is allowed to roll as if it were advantage, but you will decide, without telling him, whether you take the second roll into account depending on whether his skill applies or not.
Ofcourse, this means that you will have to do this on other occasions as well, to avoid shifting the meta from the problem with advantage rolls on Favoured Enemy, to meta on this "trick".
(Disclaimer: I'm very noob at D&D so I have no idea if there's anything in the rulebook, or some common practice for this.)
New contributor
$endgroup$
How about you say that he is allowed to roll as if it were advantage, but you will decide, without telling him, whether you take the second roll into account depending on whether his skill applies or not.
Ofcourse, this means that you will have to do this on other occasions as well, to avoid shifting the meta from the problem with advantage rolls on Favoured Enemy, to meta on this "trick".
(Disclaimer: I'm very noob at D&D so I have no idea if there's anything in the rulebook, or some common practice for this.)
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
OpifexOpifex
7
7
New contributor
New contributor
1
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.
$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
This isn't a bad idea for some games I expect, but with the volume of dice rolling in D&D this would unfortunately end up slowing the game too much.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
SeriousBri: What if you only do it occasionaly? That way it does not give away meta-game, because it can be one of those random moments you can do a double roll that might be advantage, and you won't slow down the game too much because most of the rolls will be regular rolls.
$endgroup$
– Opifex
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
As a player I would find that pretty distracting (And as a DM would never remember lol). There are a few other problems as well; Advantage or disadvantage is a mechanical way of telling the player that their character is really good at something, or in a difficult situation, and being random with this also removes that connection. For example if I didn't have advantage I might prefer to manipulate the situation until I did - this also removes that choice - but then so do the answers about rolling in secret.
$endgroup$
– SeriousBri
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance. As a solution unique to Roll20 and possibly other virtual tabletops, you can set him to roll always at advantage; then, you can actually take the higher roll on those instances when he does have advantage. With physical dice, this would definitely be tedious, but it's much easier when playing online.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,
14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
$begingroup$
As a small note, if you're playing online on Roll20 then this is already done for you. Every check gives two results, e.g.,
14 | 17
. You take the higher for advantage, the lower for disadvantage, or the left when you have neither.$endgroup$
– Captain Man
8 mins ago
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