Counting the ways to form 4 different teams
$begingroup$
We have 40 players and we need to form 4 teams. For each team is necessary to indicate explicitly 6 players and 4 reserves. How many ways can teams be formed?
My attempt: first we can start to calculate in how many ways we can choose 6 players and 4 reserves. Since a distinction is made between players and reserves, I think we should consider it in the calculation (in the sense that, otherwise, it would have been simply 11 players). I think that we can calculate this number by multiplicate $binom{40}{6}$ ways to choose the players and $binom{34}{4}$ ways to choose the reserves. Now, the multiplication produces a very large number and makes me believe that I'm wrong (because then I need to calculate in how many ways we can assign one of the combinations to a team). Am I wrong? Is this a correct reasoning?
combinatorics
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We have 40 players and we need to form 4 teams. For each team is necessary to indicate explicitly 6 players and 4 reserves. How many ways can teams be formed?
My attempt: first we can start to calculate in how many ways we can choose 6 players and 4 reserves. Since a distinction is made between players and reserves, I think we should consider it in the calculation (in the sense that, otherwise, it would have been simply 11 players). I think that we can calculate this number by multiplicate $binom{40}{6}$ ways to choose the players and $binom{34}{4}$ ways to choose the reserves. Now, the multiplication produces a very large number and makes me believe that I'm wrong (because then I need to calculate in how many ways we can assign one of the combinations to a team). Am I wrong? Is this a correct reasoning?
combinatorics
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We have 40 players and we need to form 4 teams. For each team is necessary to indicate explicitly 6 players and 4 reserves. How many ways can teams be formed?
My attempt: first we can start to calculate in how many ways we can choose 6 players and 4 reserves. Since a distinction is made between players and reserves, I think we should consider it in the calculation (in the sense that, otherwise, it would have been simply 11 players). I think that we can calculate this number by multiplicate $binom{40}{6}$ ways to choose the players and $binom{34}{4}$ ways to choose the reserves. Now, the multiplication produces a very large number and makes me believe that I'm wrong (because then I need to calculate in how many ways we can assign one of the combinations to a team). Am I wrong? Is this a correct reasoning?
combinatorics
$endgroup$
We have 40 players and we need to form 4 teams. For each team is necessary to indicate explicitly 6 players and 4 reserves. How many ways can teams be formed?
My attempt: first we can start to calculate in how many ways we can choose 6 players and 4 reserves. Since a distinction is made between players and reserves, I think we should consider it in the calculation (in the sense that, otherwise, it would have been simply 11 players). I think that we can calculate this number by multiplicate $binom{40}{6}$ ways to choose the players and $binom{34}{4}$ ways to choose the reserves. Now, the multiplication produces a very large number and makes me believe that I'm wrong (because then I need to calculate in how many ways we can assign one of the combinations to a team). Am I wrong? Is this a correct reasoning?
combinatorics
combinatorics
asked 58 mins ago
PCNFPCNF
626
626
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4 Answers
4
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You're on the right track.
The number of ways to pick Team 1 is equal to $binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4$. After that, the number of ways to pick out Team 2 is $binom{30}6cdot binom{24}4$. And so on.
Ultimately, the number of ways to pick out the full $4$ teams is
$$
binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4cdotbinom{30}6cdotbinom{24}4cdotbinom{20}6cdotbinom{14}4cdotbinom{10}6cdotbinom{4}4\
= frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^4}
$$
(Also known as the multinomial coefficient $binom{40}{6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4}$.)
However, we don't care which team is Team 1 and which team is Team 4. We just care which four teams are picked. Since the same four teams can be picked out in $4!$ ways, the total number of different team compositions is
$$
frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^5}
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would do it a little different. First split 40 players in to groups of 10 players, that we can do on $$a= {1over 4!} cdot {40choose 10}cdot {30choose 10}cdot {20choose 10}cdot {10choose 10}$$
ways.
Now in each group choose 4 reserve players, so we can do that on $b={10choose 4}^4$ ways.
Thus the result is $$ acdot b = {40!over 4!^5cdot 6!^4}$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The number of ways to choose which players are reserves is $$binom{40}{16} $$
The remaining $24$ players are starters.
The number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the first team is $$binom{24}{6} $$
Given this, the number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the second team from the remaining $18$ choices is $$binom{18}{6}$$
Similarly, the third team's starters: $$binom{12}{6} $$
The remaining $6$ must start for the last team.
The total number of ways to arrange the starters within teams is
$$ binom{24}{6} binom{18}{6} binom{12}{6}$$
The same reasoning applies to reserves, and the total number of ways to arrange the reserves within teams is
$$ binom{16}{4} binom{12}{4} binom{8}{4}$$
Finally, the teams are not given distinguishing features (such as names) beforehand, so the order in which a set of four rosters is obtained is irrelevant. We've counted every assignment of the players $4!=24$ times instead of just once.
To compensate for this we can simply divide by $24$.
The final result is
$$ displaystylefrac{ displaystylebinom{40}{16} displaystylebinom{24}{6} displaystylebinom{18}{6} displaystylebinom{12}{6} displaystylebinom{16}{4} displaystylebinom{12}{4} displaystylebinom{8}{4}}{24} $$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are: $$frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ counts.
Then there are: $$frac1{4!}frac1{4!}frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^66!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ does not count.
This determines $4$ selections and $4$ reserve-teams.
There are $4!$ ways to connect each selection with one reserve team.
That gives a total of: $$4!timesfrac{40!}{4!^66!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^56!^4}$$possibilities.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
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active
oldest
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$begingroup$
You're on the right track.
The number of ways to pick Team 1 is equal to $binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4$. After that, the number of ways to pick out Team 2 is $binom{30}6cdot binom{24}4$. And so on.
Ultimately, the number of ways to pick out the full $4$ teams is
$$
binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4cdotbinom{30}6cdotbinom{24}4cdotbinom{20}6cdotbinom{14}4cdotbinom{10}6cdotbinom{4}4\
= frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^4}
$$
(Also known as the multinomial coefficient $binom{40}{6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4}$.)
However, we don't care which team is Team 1 and which team is Team 4. We just care which four teams are picked. Since the same four teams can be picked out in $4!$ ways, the total number of different team compositions is
$$
frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^5}
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You're on the right track.
The number of ways to pick Team 1 is equal to $binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4$. After that, the number of ways to pick out Team 2 is $binom{30}6cdot binom{24}4$. And so on.
Ultimately, the number of ways to pick out the full $4$ teams is
$$
binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4cdotbinom{30}6cdotbinom{24}4cdotbinom{20}6cdotbinom{14}4cdotbinom{10}6cdotbinom{4}4\
= frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^4}
$$
(Also known as the multinomial coefficient $binom{40}{6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4}$.)
However, we don't care which team is Team 1 and which team is Team 4. We just care which four teams are picked. Since the same four teams can be picked out in $4!$ ways, the total number of different team compositions is
$$
frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^5}
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You're on the right track.
The number of ways to pick Team 1 is equal to $binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4$. After that, the number of ways to pick out Team 2 is $binom{30}6cdot binom{24}4$. And so on.
Ultimately, the number of ways to pick out the full $4$ teams is
$$
binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4cdotbinom{30}6cdotbinom{24}4cdotbinom{20}6cdotbinom{14}4cdotbinom{10}6cdotbinom{4}4\
= frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^4}
$$
(Also known as the multinomial coefficient $binom{40}{6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4}$.)
However, we don't care which team is Team 1 and which team is Team 4. We just care which four teams are picked. Since the same four teams can be picked out in $4!$ ways, the total number of different team compositions is
$$
frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^5}
$$
$endgroup$
You're on the right track.
The number of ways to pick Team 1 is equal to $binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4$. After that, the number of ways to pick out Team 2 is $binom{30}6cdot binom{24}4$. And so on.
Ultimately, the number of ways to pick out the full $4$ teams is
$$
binom{40}6cdotbinom{34}4cdotbinom{30}6cdotbinom{24}4cdotbinom{20}6cdotbinom{14}4cdotbinom{10}6cdotbinom{4}4\
= frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^4}
$$
(Also known as the multinomial coefficient $binom{40}{6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4, 6, 4}$.)
However, we don't care which team is Team 1 and which team is Team 4. We just care which four teams are picked. Since the same four teams can be picked out in $4!$ ways, the total number of different team compositions is
$$
frac{40!}{(6!)^4cdot (4!)^5}
$$
answered 50 mins ago
ArthurArthur
112k7109191
112k7109191
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would do it a little different. First split 40 players in to groups of 10 players, that we can do on $$a= {1over 4!} cdot {40choose 10}cdot {30choose 10}cdot {20choose 10}cdot {10choose 10}$$
ways.
Now in each group choose 4 reserve players, so we can do that on $b={10choose 4}^4$ ways.
Thus the result is $$ acdot b = {40!over 4!^5cdot 6!^4}$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would do it a little different. First split 40 players in to groups of 10 players, that we can do on $$a= {1over 4!} cdot {40choose 10}cdot {30choose 10}cdot {20choose 10}cdot {10choose 10}$$
ways.
Now in each group choose 4 reserve players, so we can do that on $b={10choose 4}^4$ ways.
Thus the result is $$ acdot b = {40!over 4!^5cdot 6!^4}$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would do it a little different. First split 40 players in to groups of 10 players, that we can do on $$a= {1over 4!} cdot {40choose 10}cdot {30choose 10}cdot {20choose 10}cdot {10choose 10}$$
ways.
Now in each group choose 4 reserve players, so we can do that on $b={10choose 4}^4$ ways.
Thus the result is $$ acdot b = {40!over 4!^5cdot 6!^4}$$
$endgroup$
I would do it a little different. First split 40 players in to groups of 10 players, that we can do on $$a= {1over 4!} cdot {40choose 10}cdot {30choose 10}cdot {20choose 10}cdot {10choose 10}$$
ways.
Now in each group choose 4 reserve players, so we can do that on $b={10choose 4}^4$ ways.
Thus the result is $$ acdot b = {40!over 4!^5cdot 6!^4}$$
answered 42 mins ago
greedoidgreedoid
38.8k114797
38.8k114797
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
$begingroup$
Wow, your method is much quicker than mine! +1
$endgroup$
– Zubin Mukerjee
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The number of ways to choose which players are reserves is $$binom{40}{16} $$
The remaining $24$ players are starters.
The number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the first team is $$binom{24}{6} $$
Given this, the number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the second team from the remaining $18$ choices is $$binom{18}{6}$$
Similarly, the third team's starters: $$binom{12}{6} $$
The remaining $6$ must start for the last team.
The total number of ways to arrange the starters within teams is
$$ binom{24}{6} binom{18}{6} binom{12}{6}$$
The same reasoning applies to reserves, and the total number of ways to arrange the reserves within teams is
$$ binom{16}{4} binom{12}{4} binom{8}{4}$$
Finally, the teams are not given distinguishing features (such as names) beforehand, so the order in which a set of four rosters is obtained is irrelevant. We've counted every assignment of the players $4!=24$ times instead of just once.
To compensate for this we can simply divide by $24$.
The final result is
$$ displaystylefrac{ displaystylebinom{40}{16} displaystylebinom{24}{6} displaystylebinom{18}{6} displaystylebinom{12}{6} displaystylebinom{16}{4} displaystylebinom{12}{4} displaystylebinom{8}{4}}{24} $$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The number of ways to choose which players are reserves is $$binom{40}{16} $$
The remaining $24$ players are starters.
The number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the first team is $$binom{24}{6} $$
Given this, the number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the second team from the remaining $18$ choices is $$binom{18}{6}$$
Similarly, the third team's starters: $$binom{12}{6} $$
The remaining $6$ must start for the last team.
The total number of ways to arrange the starters within teams is
$$ binom{24}{6} binom{18}{6} binom{12}{6}$$
The same reasoning applies to reserves, and the total number of ways to arrange the reserves within teams is
$$ binom{16}{4} binom{12}{4} binom{8}{4}$$
Finally, the teams are not given distinguishing features (such as names) beforehand, so the order in which a set of four rosters is obtained is irrelevant. We've counted every assignment of the players $4!=24$ times instead of just once.
To compensate for this we can simply divide by $24$.
The final result is
$$ displaystylefrac{ displaystylebinom{40}{16} displaystylebinom{24}{6} displaystylebinom{18}{6} displaystylebinom{12}{6} displaystylebinom{16}{4} displaystylebinom{12}{4} displaystylebinom{8}{4}}{24} $$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The number of ways to choose which players are reserves is $$binom{40}{16} $$
The remaining $24$ players are starters.
The number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the first team is $$binom{24}{6} $$
Given this, the number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the second team from the remaining $18$ choices is $$binom{18}{6}$$
Similarly, the third team's starters: $$binom{12}{6} $$
The remaining $6$ must start for the last team.
The total number of ways to arrange the starters within teams is
$$ binom{24}{6} binom{18}{6} binom{12}{6}$$
The same reasoning applies to reserves, and the total number of ways to arrange the reserves within teams is
$$ binom{16}{4} binom{12}{4} binom{8}{4}$$
Finally, the teams are not given distinguishing features (such as names) beforehand, so the order in which a set of four rosters is obtained is irrelevant. We've counted every assignment of the players $4!=24$ times instead of just once.
To compensate for this we can simply divide by $24$.
The final result is
$$ displaystylefrac{ displaystylebinom{40}{16} displaystylebinom{24}{6} displaystylebinom{18}{6} displaystylebinom{12}{6} displaystylebinom{16}{4} displaystylebinom{12}{4} displaystylebinom{8}{4}}{24} $$
$endgroup$
The number of ways to choose which players are reserves is $$binom{40}{16} $$
The remaining $24$ players are starters.
The number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the first team is $$binom{24}{6} $$
Given this, the number of ways to choose the $6$ starters on the second team from the remaining $18$ choices is $$binom{18}{6}$$
Similarly, the third team's starters: $$binom{12}{6} $$
The remaining $6$ must start for the last team.
The total number of ways to arrange the starters within teams is
$$ binom{24}{6} binom{18}{6} binom{12}{6}$$
The same reasoning applies to reserves, and the total number of ways to arrange the reserves within teams is
$$ binom{16}{4} binom{12}{4} binom{8}{4}$$
Finally, the teams are not given distinguishing features (such as names) beforehand, so the order in which a set of four rosters is obtained is irrelevant. We've counted every assignment of the players $4!=24$ times instead of just once.
To compensate for this we can simply divide by $24$.
The final result is
$$ displaystylefrac{ displaystylebinom{40}{16} displaystylebinom{24}{6} displaystylebinom{18}{6} displaystylebinom{12}{6} displaystylebinom{16}{4} displaystylebinom{12}{4} displaystylebinom{8}{4}}{24} $$
answered 37 mins ago
Zubin MukerjeeZubin Mukerjee
14.9k32657
14.9k32657
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are: $$frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ counts.
Then there are: $$frac1{4!}frac1{4!}frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^66!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ does not count.
This determines $4$ selections and $4$ reserve-teams.
There are $4!$ ways to connect each selection with one reserve team.
That gives a total of: $$4!timesfrac{40!}{4!^66!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^56!^4}$$possibilities.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are: $$frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ counts.
Then there are: $$frac1{4!}frac1{4!}frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^66!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ does not count.
This determines $4$ selections and $4$ reserve-teams.
There are $4!$ ways to connect each selection with one reserve team.
That gives a total of: $$4!timesfrac{40!}{4!^66!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^56!^4}$$possibilities.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are: $$frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ counts.
Then there are: $$frac1{4!}frac1{4!}frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^66!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ does not count.
This determines $4$ selections and $4$ reserve-teams.
There are $4!$ ways to connect each selection with one reserve team.
That gives a total of: $$4!timesfrac{40!}{4!^66!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^56!^4}$$possibilities.
$endgroup$
There are: $$frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ counts.
Then there are: $$frac1{4!}frac1{4!}frac{40!}{4!^46!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^66!^4}$$ways to split up the $40$ players in $4$ groups of $4$ and $4$ groups of $6$ in such a way that every player is member of exactly one group, and ordering of the groups of $4$ as well as ordering of the groups of $6$ does not count.
This determines $4$ selections and $4$ reserve-teams.
There are $4!$ ways to connect each selection with one reserve team.
That gives a total of: $$4!timesfrac{40!}{4!^66!^4}=frac{40!}{4!^56!^4}$$possibilities.
edited 8 mins ago
answered 28 mins ago
drhabdrhab
99k544130
99k544130
add a comment |
add a comment |
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StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
var $window = $(window),
onScroll = function(e) {
var $elem = $('.new-login-left'),
docViewTop = $window.scrollTop(),
docViewBottom = docViewTop + $window.height(),
elemTop = $elem.offset().top,
elemBottom = elemTop + $elem.height();
if ((docViewTop elemBottom)) {
StackExchange.using('gps', function() { StackExchange.gps.track('embedded_signup_form.view', { location: 'question_page' }); });
$window.unbind('scroll', onScroll);
}
};
$window.on('scroll', onScroll);
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
var $window = $(window),
onScroll = function(e) {
var $elem = $('.new-login-left'),
docViewTop = $window.scrollTop(),
docViewBottom = docViewTop + $window.height(),
elemTop = $elem.offset().top,
elemBottom = elemTop + $elem.height();
if ((docViewTop elemBottom)) {
StackExchange.using('gps', function() { StackExchange.gps.track('embedded_signup_form.view', { location: 'question_page' }); });
$window.unbind('scroll', onScroll);
}
};
$window.on('scroll', onScroll);
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown