“Fish and chips shop” or “fish and chip shop”?
4
When referring to a restaurant specializing in fish and chips would you call it a fish and chip shop or a fish and chips shop?
word-choice grammatical-number compounds attributive-nouns
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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|
show 7 more comments
4
When referring to a restaurant specializing in fish and chips would you call it a fish and chip shop or a fish and chips shop?
word-choice grammatical-number compounds attributive-nouns
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
1
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4
4
4
2
When referring to a restaurant specializing in fish and chips would you call it a fish and chip shop or a fish and chips shop?
word-choice grammatical-number compounds attributive-nouns
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
When referring to a restaurant specializing in fish and chips would you call it a fish and chip shop or a fish and chips shop?
word-choice grammatical-number compounds attributive-nouns
word-choice grammatical-number compounds attributive-nouns
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
edited 10 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
62.3k55221458
62.3k55221458
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
asked 13 hours ago
Larry HopkinsLarry Hopkins
212
212
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
1
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
1
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago
"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
1
1
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
14
It is a "fish and chip" shop, but you order "fish and chips".
Or just a chip shop since they always sell fish too.
In general, a shop selling a product refers to its product as a collective noun in the singular.
Chip shop — sells chips.
Cake shop — sells cakes.
Curtain shop — sells curtains.
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4
"Attributive nouns" or the first elements of compound nouns tend to be singular in form
There is no absolute rule forbidding the use of a plural noun in the first part of a compound, but it is more usual in general to use the singular form.* "Fish and chip(s) shop" doesn't seem to be an exception to this tendency.
The Google Ngram Viewer suggests that both forms exist, but that "fish and chip shop" is more common than "fish and chips shop":
I don't think phonetics is an important factor
Some comments have brought up the supposed phonetic indistiguishability of "fish and chip shop" and "fish and chips shop", but I can't see how that could determine the spelling one way or another: even if it is true that nobody ever pronounces these any differently in practice (which I rather doubt), that wouldn't prevent people from using the spelling "fish and chips shop" for the pronunciation [fɪʃn̩t͡ʃɪpʃɒp]. I think the use of the spelling "fish and chip shop" is based mainly on grammar, not on phonetics.
*Some exceptions to this tendency are mentioned in the answer here: Singular/plural Nouns as Adjectives
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
add a comment |
1
Either way should be acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
add a comment |
0
When a noun is used as an adjective, it is almost always the singular form, even when the noun is not normally used as a singular. E.g:
- car - car alarm
- house - house key
- trousers - trouser press
- spectacles - spectacle maker
But:
- clothes - clothes line
So, "fish and chips" is the noun phrase, and becomes singular:
- fish and chips - fish and chip shop
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
14
It is a "fish and chip" shop, but you order "fish and chips".
Or just a chip shop since they always sell fish too.
In general, a shop selling a product refers to its product as a collective noun in the singular.
Chip shop — sells chips.
Cake shop — sells cakes.
Curtain shop — sells curtains.
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
14
It is a "fish and chip" shop, but you order "fish and chips".
Or just a chip shop since they always sell fish too.
In general, a shop selling a product refers to its product as a collective noun in the singular.
Chip shop — sells chips.
Cake shop — sells cakes.
Curtain shop — sells curtains.
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
14
14
14
It is a "fish and chip" shop, but you order "fish and chips".
Or just a chip shop since they always sell fish too.
In general, a shop selling a product refers to its product as a collective noun in the singular.
Chip shop — sells chips.
Cake shop — sells cakes.
Curtain shop — sells curtains.
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
It is a "fish and chip" shop, but you order "fish and chips".
Or just a chip shop since they always sell fish too.
In general, a shop selling a product refers to its product as a collective noun in the singular.
Chip shop — sells chips.
Cake shop — sells cakes.
Curtain shop — sells curtains.
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
answered 13 hours ago
Weather VaneWeather Vane
2,254414
2,254414
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
2
2
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
In the UK I presume. In Canada there are "chip wagons." These are trucks that sell french fried potatoes with gravy and curds. This is extremely popular in Quebec. No fish. It's called "poutine."
– puppetsock
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
@puppetsock for French StackExchange?
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
1
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
@puppetsock moi, j'ai un "passion de pois".
– Weather Vane
12 hours ago
1
1
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
In Canada there are also 'fish and chip shops', and also 'chip trucks' that may sell chips (or fries) with or without cheese curds and gravy.
– DJClayworth
11 hours ago
2
2
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
@Mari-LouA "chippy" is still in vogue AFAIK.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
4
"Attributive nouns" or the first elements of compound nouns tend to be singular in form
There is no absolute rule forbidding the use of a plural noun in the first part of a compound, but it is more usual in general to use the singular form.* "Fish and chip(s) shop" doesn't seem to be an exception to this tendency.
The Google Ngram Viewer suggests that both forms exist, but that "fish and chip shop" is more common than "fish and chips shop":
I don't think phonetics is an important factor
Some comments have brought up the supposed phonetic indistiguishability of "fish and chip shop" and "fish and chips shop", but I can't see how that could determine the spelling one way or another: even if it is true that nobody ever pronounces these any differently in practice (which I rather doubt), that wouldn't prevent people from using the spelling "fish and chips shop" for the pronunciation [fɪʃn̩t͡ʃɪpʃɒp]. I think the use of the spelling "fish and chip shop" is based mainly on grammar, not on phonetics.
*Some exceptions to this tendency are mentioned in the answer here: Singular/plural Nouns as Adjectives
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
add a comment |
4
"Attributive nouns" or the first elements of compound nouns tend to be singular in form
There is no absolute rule forbidding the use of a plural noun in the first part of a compound, but it is more usual in general to use the singular form.* "Fish and chip(s) shop" doesn't seem to be an exception to this tendency.
The Google Ngram Viewer suggests that both forms exist, but that "fish and chip shop" is more common than "fish and chips shop":
I don't think phonetics is an important factor
Some comments have brought up the supposed phonetic indistiguishability of "fish and chip shop" and "fish and chips shop", but I can't see how that could determine the spelling one way or another: even if it is true that nobody ever pronounces these any differently in practice (which I rather doubt), that wouldn't prevent people from using the spelling "fish and chips shop" for the pronunciation [fɪʃn̩t͡ʃɪpʃɒp]. I think the use of the spelling "fish and chip shop" is based mainly on grammar, not on phonetics.
*Some exceptions to this tendency are mentioned in the answer here: Singular/plural Nouns as Adjectives
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
add a comment |
4
4
4
"Attributive nouns" or the first elements of compound nouns tend to be singular in form
There is no absolute rule forbidding the use of a plural noun in the first part of a compound, but it is more usual in general to use the singular form.* "Fish and chip(s) shop" doesn't seem to be an exception to this tendency.
The Google Ngram Viewer suggests that both forms exist, but that "fish and chip shop" is more common than "fish and chips shop":
I don't think phonetics is an important factor
Some comments have brought up the supposed phonetic indistiguishability of "fish and chip shop" and "fish and chips shop", but I can't see how that could determine the spelling one way or another: even if it is true that nobody ever pronounces these any differently in practice (which I rather doubt), that wouldn't prevent people from using the spelling "fish and chips shop" for the pronunciation [fɪʃn̩t͡ʃɪpʃɒp]. I think the use of the spelling "fish and chip shop" is based mainly on grammar, not on phonetics.
*Some exceptions to this tendency are mentioned in the answer here: Singular/plural Nouns as Adjectives
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
"Attributive nouns" or the first elements of compound nouns tend to be singular in form
There is no absolute rule forbidding the use of a plural noun in the first part of a compound, but it is more usual in general to use the singular form.* "Fish and chip(s) shop" doesn't seem to be an exception to this tendency.
The Google Ngram Viewer suggests that both forms exist, but that "fish and chip shop" is more common than "fish and chips shop":
I don't think phonetics is an important factor
Some comments have brought up the supposed phonetic indistiguishability of "fish and chip shop" and "fish and chips shop", but I can't see how that could determine the spelling one way or another: even if it is true that nobody ever pronounces these any differently in practice (which I rather doubt), that wouldn't prevent people from using the spelling "fish and chips shop" for the pronunciation [fɪʃn̩t͡ʃɪpʃɒp]. I think the use of the spelling "fish and chip shop" is based mainly on grammar, not on phonetics.
*Some exceptions to this tendency are mentioned in the answer here: Singular/plural Nouns as Adjectives
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
edited 2 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
answered 8 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
48.3k8114219
48.3k8114219
add a comment |
add a comment |
1
Either way should be acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Either way should be acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
1
1
Either way should be acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Either way should be acceptable.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
answered 8 hours ago
Paul WeaverPaul Weaver
191
191
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Paul Weaver is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
2
2
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
Hi Paul, welcome to EL&U. This isn't a bad start, but it's too short: the system has flagged it as "low-quality because of its length and content." An answer on EL&U is expected to be authoritative, detailed, and explain why it is correct. It's best if you edit your answer to provide more information - e.g., add a published definition (linked to the source) and examples of its use. Or if that sounds like too much effort (given the other answers), you can always delete your post. For further guidance, see How to Answer and take the EL&U Tour :-)
– Chappo
7 hours ago
1
1
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
This is not just a good start; this is the correct answer. First, because it's for a business, and businesses aren't subject to grammar or usage rules. Second, because there's no difference between Fish and Chips Shop and Fish and Chip Shop in English. Nobody can hear the /s/ at the end of Chips when it comes before the /ʃ/ of Shop. The phrases are identical in pronunciation, and how they are spelled is irrelevant because advertising makes its own rules.
– John Lawler
6 hours ago
2
2
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
@John Businesses can name their restaurants any way they want to, but this has nothing to do with businesses or naming. A hat maker is also a business, but that doesn’t mean there’s no reason not to call it a hats maker. Moreover, it’s empirically false that there’s no phonetic distinction between the two – there certainly is in my English. A word-final consonant followed by a homorganic word-initial consonant result in a geminate consonant to me; win no and winnow are not pronounced the same, and nor are chip shop and chips shop.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
5 hours ago
add a comment |
0
When a noun is used as an adjective, it is almost always the singular form, even when the noun is not normally used as a singular. E.g:
- car - car alarm
- house - house key
- trousers - trouser press
- spectacles - spectacle maker
But:
- clothes - clothes line
So, "fish and chips" is the noun phrase, and becomes singular:
- fish and chips - fish and chip shop
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
add a comment |
0
When a noun is used as an adjective, it is almost always the singular form, even when the noun is not normally used as a singular. E.g:
- car - car alarm
- house - house key
- trousers - trouser press
- spectacles - spectacle maker
But:
- clothes - clothes line
So, "fish and chips" is the noun phrase, and becomes singular:
- fish and chips - fish and chip shop
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
add a comment |
0
0
0
When a noun is used as an adjective, it is almost always the singular form, even when the noun is not normally used as a singular. E.g:
- car - car alarm
- house - house key
- trousers - trouser press
- spectacles - spectacle maker
But:
- clothes - clothes line
So, "fish and chips" is the noun phrase, and becomes singular:
- fish and chips - fish and chip shop
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
When a noun is used as an adjective, it is almost always the singular form, even when the noun is not normally used as a singular. E.g:
- car - car alarm
- house - house key
- trousers - trouser press
- spectacles - spectacle maker
But:
- clothes - clothes line
So, "fish and chips" is the noun phrase, and becomes singular:
- fish and chips - fish and chip shop
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
answered 6 hours ago
CJ DennisCJ Dennis
2,03841643
2,03841643
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
add a comment |
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
"Almost always" may overstate things. A number of exceptions are mentioned in this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/397244/77227
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
@sumelic After reading that answer, I'd still advise using the singular as a rule of thumb.
– CJ Dennis
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
Right, I agree about that as a rule of thumb, I was just quibbling about the wording "almost always". I'd guess that there are more than a hundred exceptions
– sumelic
6 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
@sumelic Mostly always then? ;)
– Jason Bassford
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Larry Hopkins is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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"Fish" is plural like "people". On the other hand if you describe several kinds of fish or people you can use "fishes" and "peoples".
– Rusty Core
13 hours ago
@RustyCore we very rarely say "fishes" and I have absolutely never seen a "fishes" shop.
– Weather Vane
13 hours ago
Does this mean I'm wrong in describing someone as a meat and potatoes guy? I've always used the the plural potatoes.
– Larry Hopkins
12 hours ago
Larry that refers to a dish he likes rather than a shop.
– Weather Vane
10 hours ago
1
If the term were "fish and chips shop", the extra "s" would decay rapidly because few people would take the time to clearly enunciate it separately from the "s" in "shop".
– Boann
9 hours ago