How do I handle players attempting to intimidate enemies with non-enchantment spells?












3












$begingroup$


I'm a DM for the first time and I'm running LMoP with a group of 5 very experienced players.



I have difficulties in handling situations in which the players try to intimidate the enemy roleplaying the intimidation with "scenic effects".
For example, suppose they meet with a random group of goblins which is looking for them.



They usually start casting lots of spectacular cantrips or 1st level spells; like the flame becomes blue, a thunder comes from clear sky, a deep voice from nowhere pretends to be the Maglubiyet the God of Goblins saying to beg on their knees, a little earthquake moves the terrain, and so on. So, since the group of goblins is supposed to be not intelligent, I always feel like the goblins should become submissive, docile, compliant, subjugated, and so they refuse to fight, or they run, or they get to the floor praying, and so on. If the goblins ignore this kind of intimidation, it doesn't feel right to me. And I don't really like the feeling when it seems that the players control my monsters.



What is the best way to handle these situations?










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  • $begingroup$
    Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    48 mins ago
















3












$begingroup$


I'm a DM for the first time and I'm running LMoP with a group of 5 very experienced players.



I have difficulties in handling situations in which the players try to intimidate the enemy roleplaying the intimidation with "scenic effects".
For example, suppose they meet with a random group of goblins which is looking for them.



They usually start casting lots of spectacular cantrips or 1st level spells; like the flame becomes blue, a thunder comes from clear sky, a deep voice from nowhere pretends to be the Maglubiyet the God of Goblins saying to beg on their knees, a little earthquake moves the terrain, and so on. So, since the group of goblins is supposed to be not intelligent, I always feel like the goblins should become submissive, docile, compliant, subjugated, and so they refuse to fight, or they run, or they get to the floor praying, and so on. If the goblins ignore this kind of intimidation, it doesn't feel right to me. And I don't really like the feeling when it seems that the players control my monsters.



What is the best way to handle these situations?










share|improve this question









New contributor




edoedoedo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    48 mins ago














3












3








3


1



$begingroup$


I'm a DM for the first time and I'm running LMoP with a group of 5 very experienced players.



I have difficulties in handling situations in which the players try to intimidate the enemy roleplaying the intimidation with "scenic effects".
For example, suppose they meet with a random group of goblins which is looking for them.



They usually start casting lots of spectacular cantrips or 1st level spells; like the flame becomes blue, a thunder comes from clear sky, a deep voice from nowhere pretends to be the Maglubiyet the God of Goblins saying to beg on their knees, a little earthquake moves the terrain, and so on. So, since the group of goblins is supposed to be not intelligent, I always feel like the goblins should become submissive, docile, compliant, subjugated, and so they refuse to fight, or they run, or they get to the floor praying, and so on. If the goblins ignore this kind of intimidation, it doesn't feel right to me. And I don't really like the feeling when it seems that the players control my monsters.



What is the best way to handle these situations?










share|improve this question









New contributor




edoedoedo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I'm a DM for the first time and I'm running LMoP with a group of 5 very experienced players.



I have difficulties in handling situations in which the players try to intimidate the enemy roleplaying the intimidation with "scenic effects".
For example, suppose they meet with a random group of goblins which is looking for them.



They usually start casting lots of spectacular cantrips or 1st level spells; like the flame becomes blue, a thunder comes from clear sky, a deep voice from nowhere pretends to be the Maglubiyet the God of Goblins saying to beg on their knees, a little earthquake moves the terrain, and so on. So, since the group of goblins is supposed to be not intelligent, I always feel like the goblins should become submissive, docile, compliant, subjugated, and so they refuse to fight, or they run, or they get to the floor praying, and so on. If the goblins ignore this kind of intimidation, it doesn't feel right to me. And I don't really like the feeling when it seems that the players control my monsters.



What is the best way to handle these situations?







dnd-5e gm-techniques roleplaying






share|improve this question









New contributor




edoedoedo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









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share|improve this question








edited 35 mins ago









V2Blast

20.2k357127




20.2k357127






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asked 1 hour ago









edoedoedoedoedoedo

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edoedoedo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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  • $begingroup$
    Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    48 mins ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
    $endgroup$
    – KorvinStarmast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
    $endgroup$
    – linksassin
    48 mins ago
















$begingroup$
Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Welcoming to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and visit the help center to see how to get the best out of this stack. (you'll get the usual badges). Thanks for your question, and props for joining the company of DM's everywhere.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
48 mins ago




$begingroup$
I edited your title to match the body of your question. If you disagree with my changes feel free to edit again.
$endgroup$
– linksassin
48 mins ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

Treat it as a contest



The players are effectively trying to use a level 0 cantrip to produce the same result as a higher level crowd control spell like Fear or Mass Suggestion. Obviously, this is game breaking.



We had an arcane trickster rogue in our group who tried this kind of thing a lot. The way our DM handled it was to treat it as a contest. The caster is trying to deceive the goblins into thinking that they should not attack the party using the effect of a spell.



The caster casts the cantrip and then the makes a Deception or Persuasion skill check against the goblins' Insight checks.



You could have the goblins roll a single combined check or individually. If you do the latter, any goblins that are not convinced by the cantrip's effect can rally its comrades by saying something like "It's a trick! That's not what Maglubiyet sounds like!" (or teaches, whatever).



Rolling like this gives the goblin pack a high chance of resisting the cantrip's intended effect.



Alternatively, you can split the difference and have some of the goblins sit in one place for a round, quivering in their boots, while the unaffected ones charge forward. The scared goblins buck up the following round and join the braver ones.



Doing it this way allows you to keep the solution "within the game." You don't have to have a meta discussion with your player(s) to tell them that you won't let them do something. That's never fun.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
    $endgroup$
    – edoedoedo
    19 mins ago



















6












$begingroup$

Goblins are not actually dumb, unless the ones in Lost Mines of Phandelver have significantly different stats from normal. By default they have an intelligence score of 10, the same as an average person, and an 8 wisdom, which is only slightly worse. They are perfectly capable of recognizing the gestures and chanting of spellcasting and determining that it is a trick designed to intimidate them. They live in a world where illusions and magic are commonplace, so they are far more likely to assume that they are being tricked than that their god is directly speaking with them.



By default I personally would not allow any such attempt to work at all unless the spellcaster both concealed themselves from view so that the casting was not obvious and made a successful Deception check, and even then I would probably only give advantage on the Intimidation roll.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$

    They are trying to intimidate, so they make an Charisma (Intimidation) check



    The spells do not do anything other than what they say; however, if you feel that the spells etc. would be advantageous then give them advantage on the check.



    Note that this is giving the spells more power than they have, but rewarding good play may justify such house-ruling.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3












      $begingroup$

      Treat it as a contest



      The players are effectively trying to use a level 0 cantrip to produce the same result as a higher level crowd control spell like Fear or Mass Suggestion. Obviously, this is game breaking.



      We had an arcane trickster rogue in our group who tried this kind of thing a lot. The way our DM handled it was to treat it as a contest. The caster is trying to deceive the goblins into thinking that they should not attack the party using the effect of a spell.



      The caster casts the cantrip and then the makes a Deception or Persuasion skill check against the goblins' Insight checks.



      You could have the goblins roll a single combined check or individually. If you do the latter, any goblins that are not convinced by the cantrip's effect can rally its comrades by saying something like "It's a trick! That's not what Maglubiyet sounds like!" (or teaches, whatever).



      Rolling like this gives the goblin pack a high chance of resisting the cantrip's intended effect.



      Alternatively, you can split the difference and have some of the goblins sit in one place for a round, quivering in their boots, while the unaffected ones charge forward. The scared goblins buck up the following round and join the braver ones.



      Doing it this way allows you to keep the solution "within the game." You don't have to have a meta discussion with your player(s) to tell them that you won't let them do something. That's never fun.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
        $endgroup$
        – edoedoedo
        19 mins ago
















      3












      $begingroup$

      Treat it as a contest



      The players are effectively trying to use a level 0 cantrip to produce the same result as a higher level crowd control spell like Fear or Mass Suggestion. Obviously, this is game breaking.



      We had an arcane trickster rogue in our group who tried this kind of thing a lot. The way our DM handled it was to treat it as a contest. The caster is trying to deceive the goblins into thinking that they should not attack the party using the effect of a spell.



      The caster casts the cantrip and then the makes a Deception or Persuasion skill check against the goblins' Insight checks.



      You could have the goblins roll a single combined check or individually. If you do the latter, any goblins that are not convinced by the cantrip's effect can rally its comrades by saying something like "It's a trick! That's not what Maglubiyet sounds like!" (or teaches, whatever).



      Rolling like this gives the goblin pack a high chance of resisting the cantrip's intended effect.



      Alternatively, you can split the difference and have some of the goblins sit in one place for a round, quivering in their boots, while the unaffected ones charge forward. The scared goblins buck up the following round and join the braver ones.



      Doing it this way allows you to keep the solution "within the game." You don't have to have a meta discussion with your player(s) to tell them that you won't let them do something. That's never fun.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
        $endgroup$
        – edoedoedo
        19 mins ago














      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$

      Treat it as a contest



      The players are effectively trying to use a level 0 cantrip to produce the same result as a higher level crowd control spell like Fear or Mass Suggestion. Obviously, this is game breaking.



      We had an arcane trickster rogue in our group who tried this kind of thing a lot. The way our DM handled it was to treat it as a contest. The caster is trying to deceive the goblins into thinking that they should not attack the party using the effect of a spell.



      The caster casts the cantrip and then the makes a Deception or Persuasion skill check against the goblins' Insight checks.



      You could have the goblins roll a single combined check or individually. If you do the latter, any goblins that are not convinced by the cantrip's effect can rally its comrades by saying something like "It's a trick! That's not what Maglubiyet sounds like!" (or teaches, whatever).



      Rolling like this gives the goblin pack a high chance of resisting the cantrip's intended effect.



      Alternatively, you can split the difference and have some of the goblins sit in one place for a round, quivering in their boots, while the unaffected ones charge forward. The scared goblins buck up the following round and join the braver ones.



      Doing it this way allows you to keep the solution "within the game." You don't have to have a meta discussion with your player(s) to tell them that you won't let them do something. That's never fun.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Treat it as a contest



      The players are effectively trying to use a level 0 cantrip to produce the same result as a higher level crowd control spell like Fear or Mass Suggestion. Obviously, this is game breaking.



      We had an arcane trickster rogue in our group who tried this kind of thing a lot. The way our DM handled it was to treat it as a contest. The caster is trying to deceive the goblins into thinking that they should not attack the party using the effect of a spell.



      The caster casts the cantrip and then the makes a Deception or Persuasion skill check against the goblins' Insight checks.



      You could have the goblins roll a single combined check or individually. If you do the latter, any goblins that are not convinced by the cantrip's effect can rally its comrades by saying something like "It's a trick! That's not what Maglubiyet sounds like!" (or teaches, whatever).



      Rolling like this gives the goblin pack a high chance of resisting the cantrip's intended effect.



      Alternatively, you can split the difference and have some of the goblins sit in one place for a round, quivering in their boots, while the unaffected ones charge forward. The scared goblins buck up the following round and join the braver ones.



      Doing it this way allows you to keep the solution "within the game." You don't have to have a meta discussion with your player(s) to tell them that you won't let them do something. That's never fun.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 1 hour ago









      KorvinStarmast

      75.8k17238414




      75.8k17238414










      answered 1 hour ago









      RykaraRykara

      2,823328




      2,823328












      • $begingroup$
        I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
        $endgroup$
        – edoedoedo
        19 mins ago


















      • $begingroup$
        I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
        $endgroup$
        – edoedoedo
        19 mins ago
















      $begingroup$
      I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
      $endgroup$
      – edoedoedo
      19 mins ago




      $begingroup$
      I like this approach very much, I'll try it in the next session!
      $endgroup$
      – edoedoedo
      19 mins ago













      6












      $begingroup$

      Goblins are not actually dumb, unless the ones in Lost Mines of Phandelver have significantly different stats from normal. By default they have an intelligence score of 10, the same as an average person, and an 8 wisdom, which is only slightly worse. They are perfectly capable of recognizing the gestures and chanting of spellcasting and determining that it is a trick designed to intimidate them. They live in a world where illusions and magic are commonplace, so they are far more likely to assume that they are being tricked than that their god is directly speaking with them.



      By default I personally would not allow any such attempt to work at all unless the spellcaster both concealed themselves from view so that the casting was not obvious and made a successful Deception check, and even then I would probably only give advantage on the Intimidation roll.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        6












        $begingroup$

        Goblins are not actually dumb, unless the ones in Lost Mines of Phandelver have significantly different stats from normal. By default they have an intelligence score of 10, the same as an average person, and an 8 wisdom, which is only slightly worse. They are perfectly capable of recognizing the gestures and chanting of spellcasting and determining that it is a trick designed to intimidate them. They live in a world where illusions and magic are commonplace, so they are far more likely to assume that they are being tricked than that their god is directly speaking with them.



        By default I personally would not allow any such attempt to work at all unless the spellcaster both concealed themselves from view so that the casting was not obvious and made a successful Deception check, and even then I would probably only give advantage on the Intimidation roll.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          6












          6








          6





          $begingroup$

          Goblins are not actually dumb, unless the ones in Lost Mines of Phandelver have significantly different stats from normal. By default they have an intelligence score of 10, the same as an average person, and an 8 wisdom, which is only slightly worse. They are perfectly capable of recognizing the gestures and chanting of spellcasting and determining that it is a trick designed to intimidate them. They live in a world where illusions and magic are commonplace, so they are far more likely to assume that they are being tricked than that their god is directly speaking with them.



          By default I personally would not allow any such attempt to work at all unless the spellcaster both concealed themselves from view so that the casting was not obvious and made a successful Deception check, and even then I would probably only give advantage on the Intimidation roll.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Goblins are not actually dumb, unless the ones in Lost Mines of Phandelver have significantly different stats from normal. By default they have an intelligence score of 10, the same as an average person, and an 8 wisdom, which is only slightly worse. They are perfectly capable of recognizing the gestures and chanting of spellcasting and determining that it is a trick designed to intimidate them. They live in a world where illusions and magic are commonplace, so they are far more likely to assume that they are being tricked than that their god is directly speaking with them.



          By default I personally would not allow any such attempt to work at all unless the spellcaster both concealed themselves from view so that the casting was not obvious and made a successful Deception check, and even then I would probably only give advantage on the Intimidation roll.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          Kyle DoyleKyle Doyle

          49624




          49624























              3












              $begingroup$

              They are trying to intimidate, so they make an Charisma (Intimidation) check



              The spells do not do anything other than what they say; however, if you feel that the spells etc. would be advantageous then give them advantage on the check.



              Note that this is giving the spells more power than they have, but rewarding good play may justify such house-ruling.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                3












                $begingroup$

                They are trying to intimidate, so they make an Charisma (Intimidation) check



                The spells do not do anything other than what they say; however, if you feel that the spells etc. would be advantageous then give them advantage on the check.



                Note that this is giving the spells more power than they have, but rewarding good play may justify such house-ruling.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  They are trying to intimidate, so they make an Charisma (Intimidation) check



                  The spells do not do anything other than what they say; however, if you feel that the spells etc. would be advantageous then give them advantage on the check.



                  Note that this is giving the spells more power than they have, but rewarding good play may justify such house-ruling.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  They are trying to intimidate, so they make an Charisma (Intimidation) check



                  The spells do not do anything other than what they say; however, if you feel that the spells etc. would be advantageous then give them advantage on the check.



                  Note that this is giving the spells more power than they have, but rewarding good play may justify such house-ruling.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 33 mins ago









                  V2Blast

                  20.2k357127




                  20.2k357127










                  answered 40 mins ago









                  Dale MDale M

                  103k21267456




                  103k21267456






















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